Comments on: Is Mormonism Christian? Part 3 http://www.pastordanwalker.org/2008/01/is-mormonism-christian-part-3.htm A St Louis pastor's biblical perspectives on life. Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:44:20 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: TUMBO http://www.pastordanwalker.org/2008/01/is-mormonism-christian-part-3.htm/comment-page-1#comment-36 TUMBO Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:54:00 +0000 http://192.168.1.105/wordpress/?p=19#comment-36 I go to a church that would be in close agreement with Pastor Dan's so I think I can speak for both of us that what we AREN'T trying to do is just make you mad by saying we don't think your religion really follows Christ and, we think ours does and, we're right and, we win! What could that possibly accomplish? Pastor Dan is trying to provoke thought and prayer so we can better understand the God who made us.<br /> The way we understand our relationship to God is the most important thing about us and it's so much more important than how we just "feel" about it. Spirit led emotions are wonderful but they don't trump truth, they should confirm it. Mormons and Christians would both say that God has taken time to inspire men to write His words so we can know Him. We don't have to be afraid of an honest examinination of those words. <br /> There are real teachings from the book of Mormon, D&C; and Pearl of Great Price that are in serious conflict with each other and the Bible. That should make you want to dive deeper into what you say you believe to satisfy your mind and spirit that, indeed, you aren't following the teachings of man but the truth about Jesus Christ. We all have the potential to be sincerely wrong.<br /> As an encouragement to everyone to honestly consider their beliefs and worldview I will say that my personal faith in the Christ of the Bible became real when, instead of just getting mad at someone for wanting to burst my bubble of good feelings, I honestly sat before God and told Him I was sure He was real but wasn't sure what were the correct teachings about Him. Much like the story of Joseph Smith.<br /> I was a little scared that I was being sacrilegious (some friends were worried about me) but I had an even deeper sense God was pleased that I believed He could reveal Himself to me if I really sought Him. I put everything on the table for examination. That was 30 years ago.<br /> After a few months of praying and reading what Mormon, Jehovah Witness, various eastern thoughts and Christians had to say about themselves I began to see the uniqueness of Jesus Christ as the savior of the world. Either He is God and took the full penalty for our sin and we are sons and daughters because of His complete forgiveness for anyone who confesses their sin and accepts it or we have to be good enough to please a perfect God. It is an unavoidable truth that Mormon teaching insists that you must have enough good works to be saved. Be honest with yourself, how do you think that judgement will go?<br /> If you believe you will have works that are good enough then you can dismiss me right now. I would have to remind you, however, that you will be rejecting the scriptures you say you believe in, Ephesians 2:8-9.<br /> At this point you may get irritated with me. Or, could the real irritation be that you aren't truly confident of what you believe and I'm just pushing that button? Don't give in to what I'm learning is a typical Mormon punt and tell yourself that you have a witness that Joseph Smith is the prophet (and so drop any legitimate questions you have about Mormonism). Let yourself wonder and ask God to show you the truth as you pray and read both pro and con sources for your questions. God is real. He is in control. We don't have to be afraid of asking Him questions, in fact, He tells us to seek His face and to inquire of Him.<br /> Who's your better friend, the person who sees you heading over a cliff and tries to warn you or the person who sees it and just doesn't want to bother. Pastor Dan and I think we see you heading over a cliff. You may think we're wrong but at least we're making the effort to warn you so maybe you should take time to confirm that your beliefs don't just make you happy but they are consistent with God's word and each other.<br /> I've got questions I can supply to anyone who would like them. I will monitor this blog and try to respond to anyone who addresses my statements. Jesus is the Christ. I go to a church that would be in close agreement with Pastor Dan's so I think I can speak for both of us that what we AREN'T trying to do is just make you mad by saying we don't think your religion really follows Christ and, we think ours does and, we're right and, we win! What could that possibly accomplish? Pastor Dan is trying to provoke thought and prayer so we can better understand the God who made us.
The way we understand our relationship to God is the most important thing about us and it's so much more important than how we just "feel" about it. Spirit led emotions are wonderful but they don't trump truth, they should confirm it. Mormons and Christians would both say that God has taken time to inspire men to write His words so we can know Him. We don't have to be afraid of an honest examinination of those words.
There are real teachings from the book of Mormon, D&C; and Pearl of Great Price that are in serious conflict with each other and the Bible. That should make you want to dive deeper into what you say you believe to satisfy your mind and spirit that, indeed, you aren't following the teachings of man but the truth about Jesus Christ. We all have the potential to be sincerely wrong.
As an encouragement to everyone to honestly consider their beliefs and worldview I will say that my personal faith in the Christ of the Bible became real when, instead of just getting mad at someone for wanting to burst my bubble of good feelings, I honestly sat before God and told Him I was sure He was real but wasn't sure what were the correct teachings about Him. Much like the story of Joseph Smith.
I was a little scared that I was being sacrilegious (some friends were worried about me) but I had an even deeper sense God was pleased that I believed He could reveal Himself to me if I really sought Him. I put everything on the table for examination. That was 30 years ago.
After a few months of praying and reading what Mormon, Jehovah Witness, various eastern thoughts and Christians had to say about themselves I began to see the uniqueness of Jesus Christ as the savior of the world. Either He is God and took the full penalty for our sin and we are sons and daughters because of His complete forgiveness for anyone who confesses their sin and accepts it or we have to be good enough to please a perfect God. It is an unavoidable truth that Mormon teaching insists that you must have enough good works to be saved. Be honest with yourself, how do you think that judgement will go?
If you believe you will have works that are good enough then you can dismiss me right now. I would have to remind you, however, that you will be rejecting the scriptures you say you believe in, Ephesians 2:8-9.
At this point you may get irritated with me. Or, could the real irritation be that you aren't truly confident of what you believe and I'm just pushing that button? Don't give in to what I'm learning is a typical Mormon punt and tell yourself that you have a witness that Joseph Smith is the prophet (and so drop any legitimate questions you have about Mormonism). Let yourself wonder and ask God to show you the truth as you pray and read both pro and con sources for your questions. God is real. He is in control. We don't have to be afraid of asking Him questions, in fact, He tells us to seek His face and to inquire of Him.
Who's your better friend, the person who sees you heading over a cliff and tries to warn you or the person who sees it and just doesn't want to bother. Pastor Dan and I think we see you heading over a cliff. You may think we're wrong but at least we're making the effort to warn you so maybe you should take time to confirm that your beliefs don't just make you happy but they are consistent with God's word and each other.
I've got questions I can supply to anyone who would like them. I will monitor this blog and try to respond to anyone who addresses my statements. Jesus is the Christ.

]]> By: Pastor Dan http://www.pastordanwalker.org/2008/01/is-mormonism-christian-part-3.htm/comment-page-1#comment-37 Pastor Dan Sun, 03 Feb 2008 05:52:00 +0000 http://192.168.1.105/wordpress/?p=19#comment-37 Rebecaa, what I have written is not based on my opinion, it is based on what the Bible says. The Bible is the authoritative guide for Christianity, not the incoherent ramblings of a boy "prophet" named Joseph Smith. Mormonism is not a Christian religion. Mormons that read their Bibles end up leaving the Mormon religion.<br /><br />It's not clear you have read my posts, since I clearly discussed that some individuals Mormons may simply be confused Christians. I am not judging the eternal destinies of individual Mormons. However, as a Christian pastor, I do have the right and responsibility of defending the Christian faith against other religions, especially those like Mormonism who claim to be Christian, but aren't. Rebecaa, what I have written is not based on my opinion, it is based on what the Bible says. The Bible is the authoritative guide for Christianity, not the incoherent ramblings of a boy “prophet” named Joseph Smith. Mormonism is not a Christian religion. Mormons that read their Bibles end up leaving the Mormon religion.

It’s not clear you have read my posts, since I clearly discussed that some individuals Mormons may simply be confused Christians. I am not judging the eternal destinies of individual Mormons. However, as a Christian pastor, I do have the right and responsibility of defending the Christian faith against other religions, especially those like Mormonism who claim to be Christian, but aren’t.

]]> By: Jon and Rebecca http://www.pastordanwalker.org/2008/01/is-mormonism-christian-part-3.htm/comment-page-1#comment-38 Jon and Rebecca Sat, 02 Feb 2008 23:29:00 +0000 http://192.168.1.105/wordpress/?p=19#comment-38 How can you decide the soul of any man? Your conclusions of Mormons are based on your opinion only and interpretations you have made. Others have different opinions that lead to other conclusions. A true man of God would be humble enough to know he can not decide the intents and feelings of another's heart. You would seem more "Christian" to never judge another people. You have no authority given from God to discern truth. I find you greatly lacking and frankly afraid. You may find one day that you were on the wrong side. How can you decide the soul of any man? Your conclusions of Mormons are based on your opinion only and interpretations you have made. Others have different opinions that lead to other conclusions. A true man of God would be humble enough to know he can not decide the intents and feelings of another’s heart. You would seem more “Christian” to never judge another people. You have no authority given from God to discern truth. I find you greatly lacking and frankly afraid. You may find one day that you were on the wrong side.

]]> By: Pastor Dan http://www.pastordanwalker.org/2008/01/is-mormonism-christian-part-3.htm/comment-page-1#comment-39 Pastor Dan Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:14:00 +0000 http://192.168.1.105/wordpress/?p=19#comment-39 Julene, your response is somewhat typical of Mormons. Unfortunately, I cannot publish all of the Mormon comments that have been submitted by others as many are much longer than my original post. <br /><br />Let me respond to you and summarize what you said. Besides your personal attacks on me, you claim Mormons are Christians because they produce beautiful artwork of Christ and write hymns about Christ. That's not a very convincing argument. My points are that the Christ and God you claim to worship are not the Jesus Christ and God revealed to us in the pages of the Bible. <br /><br />Just because a religion claims to be Christian does not make it so. Christian scholars of many denominations agree that Mormonism is not Christian. <i>The New International Dictionary of the Christian Church</i> concludes, "An examination of the doctrines taught by the Mormon church will reveal that they deny most of the cardinal teachings of the Christian faith." Julene, your response is somewhat typical of Mormons. Unfortunately, I cannot publish all of the Mormon comments that have been submitted by others as many are much longer than my original post.

Let me respond to you and summarize what you said. Besides your personal attacks on me, you claim Mormons are Christians because they produce beautiful artwork of Christ and write hymns about Christ. That’s not a very convincing argument. My points are that the Christ and God you claim to worship are not the Jesus Christ and God revealed to us in the pages of the Bible.

Just because a religion claims to be Christian does not make it so. Christian scholars of many denominations agree that Mormonism is not Christian. The New International Dictionary of the Christian Church concludes, “An examination of the doctrines taught by the Mormon church will reveal that they deny most of the cardinal teachings of the Christian faith.”

]]> By: Julene http://www.pastordanwalker.org/2008/01/is-mormonism-christian-part-3.htm/comment-page-1#comment-40 Julene Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:31:00 +0000 http://192.168.1.105/wordpress/?p=19#comment-40 Paster Dan, you have the right to say that Mormon's are not Christians, but on the same hand, I have the right to say that anyone who says that a religion that follows Jesus Christ and His teachings are not Christians are actually the people that are not Christ like. So you Pastor Dan are not a emulating Christ, because Christ would never do something as despicable as you have, and to do it under the guise of His name. What you have written to me shows your fear of people coming to a greater understanding of Christ and his church today as in times of old. For any of you that wonder if Mormon's are Christians, go to desertbook.com and look at the artwork, you will find some of the most beautiful artwork of Christ. I myself have many art things in my home of Christ, one of them is the Christus, a beautiful statue of Him with the wounds in his hands and feet. Mormon's do not wear the cross as most Christian religions do, because we celebrate his resurrection, not his death. Go on line and google LDS hymn book and read all the hymns that talk about Christ, many are written by people in the last 30-40 years, one that I like starts out saying, "I believe in Christ, He is my King". You get paid to teach this kind of thing, in the Mormon church there is no paid clergy, it is all service, and you will never hear the leader of our congregation write or preach against another religion. Paster Dan, you have the right to say that Mormon’s are not Christians, but on the same hand, I have the right to say that anyone who says that a religion that follows Jesus Christ and His teachings are not Christians are actually the people that are not Christ like. So you Pastor Dan are not a emulating Christ, because Christ would never do something as despicable as you have, and to do it under the guise of His name. What you have written to me shows your fear of people coming to a greater understanding of Christ and his church today as in times of old. For any of you that wonder if Mormon’s are Christians, go to desertbook.com and look at the artwork, you will find some of the most beautiful artwork of Christ. I myself have many art things in my home of Christ, one of them is the Christus, a beautiful statue of Him with the wounds in his hands and feet. Mormon’s do not wear the cross as most Christian religions do, because we celebrate his resurrection, not his death. Go on line and google LDS hymn book and read all the hymns that talk about Christ, many are written by people in the last 30-40 years, one that I like starts out saying, “I believe in Christ, He is my King”. You get paid to teach this kind of thing, in the Mormon church there is no paid clergy, it is all service, and you will never hear the leader of our congregation write or preach against another religion.

]]> By: Pastor Dan http://www.pastordanwalker.org/2008/01/is-mormonism-christian-part-3.htm/comment-page-1#comment-41 Pastor Dan Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:00:00 +0000 http://192.168.1.105/wordpress/?p=19#comment-41 It would be better if Anonymous would interact with the actual content of my article, which is based on Mormon doctrine, rather than just give links to the Mormon site. Unfortunately, the average Mormon, even the ones that come to your doors, are not able to defend their beliefs in any type of logical manner. The only way someone can know if what they believe is true is by carefully comparing their beliefs with the Bible. It would be better if Anonymous would interact with the actual content of my article, which is based on Mormon doctrine, rather than just give links to the Mormon site. Unfortunately, the average Mormon, even the ones that come to your doors, are not able to defend their beliefs in any type of logical manner. The only way someone can know if what they believe is true is by carefully comparing their beliefs with the Bible.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.pastordanwalker.org/2008/01/is-mormonism-christian-part-3.htm/comment-page-1#comment-42 Anonymous Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:29:00 +0000 http://192.168.1.105/wordpress/?p=19#comment-42 How you define me is really irrelevant. I'm at peace with how Jesus Christ defines me. He will be my judge, and your judge, not pastor bob, jim or harry. This sermon should help you understand why excluding people outside the mold of "traditional Christianity" is faulty: http://broadcast.lds.org/genconf/2007/10/20/GC_2007_10_27_HollandJR__02381_eng_vc1.wmv<br />http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-775-15,00.html How you define me is really irrelevant. I’m at peace with how Jesus Christ defines me. He will be my judge, and your judge, not pastor bob, jim or harry. This sermon should help you understand why excluding people outside the mold of “traditional Christianity” is faulty: http://broadcast.lds.org/genconf/2007/10/20/GC_2007_10_27_HollandJR__02381_eng_vc1.wmv
http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-775-15,00.html

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